From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 11:27 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3306

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Bernie

1b. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Ryan Wright

1c. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Chris Almy

1d. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: David Teitelbaum

1e. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: K.L. (KAYO) Ong

1f. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

1g. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Tell you if you ask.

1h. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: gullwingmag

1i. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: Todd Nelson


2a. Rack & Pinion problems
From: cupsdmc

2b. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
From: Dave Swingle

2c. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
From: David Teitelbaum


3. Re: DCS judging of cars
From: cupsdmc


4. Malibu Concourse by the Sea
From: geoff_ombao


5a. Re: DCS 08 Rooms going quick?
From: Kevin Abato

5b. Re: DCS 08 Rooms going quick?
From: bbbigray


6a. Re: Stainless Frame Features
From: Bryan Pearce

6b. Re: Stainless Frame Features
From: Bryan Pearce

6c. Re: Stainless Frame Features
From: Bryan Pearce


7. How does the thermotime switch work?
From: Derek


8. Putsch Performance
From: Tom Watkins


9. Re: Coil spring question
From: Joshua Schwartz


10. Re: A/C cutting out
From: John Hervey


11. UK source of specialty fuels
From: Peter Lucas


12. Re: Replacing door weatherstripping
From: David Teitelbaum



Messages

1a. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Bernie" bmanderville_at_dml_comcast.net bmdmc
Date: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:41 pm (PDT)

A yellow top only has a one year warranty, but it is a deep cycle style battery made for marine use. You will probably have a hard time killing it by drawing it with normal current draw of a D. But if the voltage drops below about 9 volts it's toast.

I do like the idea of a sealed gell cell battery but they really need to be charged regularly, and in the car has to be driven.

Bernie

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, deloreanernst_at_dml_... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/24/2006 10:40:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> dave.stragand_at_dml_... writes:
>
> The guy at the parts counter at Advance told me he gets a lot of them back that are only a year to a year and a half old.




Messages in this topic (19)

1b. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Ryan Wright" ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com ryanpwright
Date: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:53 pm (PDT)

Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and still have problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just don't like to sit? Do they discharge more quickly when not in use, or are they otherwise less tolerant of being discharged too low?

Does anyone really know the actual reason so many have had problems with them?

-Ryan




Messages in this topic (19)

1c. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Chris Almy" chris.almy_at_dml_comcast.net hmm252000
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:08 am (PDT)

While I can't comment on their overall failure rate, I wouldn't be surprised if they did have a high rate of failure in our Ds. All too often you hear of people replacing the battery with an Optima or replacing the alternator to fix electrical issues, when the problem is with a bad ground or dirty contacts. I'll admit to being guilty of this and is probably the reason of my red top going bad after 2 years. When reading the archives, a large number of people "solved" their electrical issues by buying a very large 1000 CCA battery. I wouldn't expect those to last very long either.

Now that I have everything sorted out and no major drain when off (upgraded lock module and don't have door lights staying on), I expect my current Optima to last a very long time.

Chris
VIN 4099

At 01:00 PM 6/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Wow, only one positive message in a barrage of nasties. Why does
>everyone recommend the Optima batteries if they're this bad?
>
>I just bought a Red Top from Costco for my car a few weeks ago. I have
>to admit, it has helped out a lot in terms of assisting with voltage
>sags at idle. I also like the sealed design. If it dies in a year, I'm
>going to be pissed. Well, not too much since Costco has such generous
>return policies, but to get stranded because of a crappy battery would
>not make me a happy camper.
>
>-Ryan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (19)

1d. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "David Teitelbaum" jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net jtrealtywebspannet
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:58 am (PDT)

IMHO the real problem is the way most of us use the cars (infrequently). The ordinary lead-acid battery is a lot more tolerant to the abuse of slow discharge to empty and then being chronically undercharged after that. My opinion on the way to go is to just put in the Delco battery and, if you feel the need, carry one of the portable jumper batteries. They are so cheap now and they come with inverters, lights, and air compressors. The best part is if you have to jump someone else you don't run the risk of damaging your own car. A master battery switch is also a good idea. When storing the car for extended times (like over the winter) remove the battery and trickle charge it once a month for a day. The Optima batteries just aren't worth it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright" <ryanpwright_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and
still have
> problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just don't li









Messages in this topic (19)

1e. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" klo_at_dml_cidio.net kayo_ong
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:01 am (PDT)

My Optima batteries weren't sitting in my DeLorean. My DeLorean is used on a daily basis and both of the Optima batteries failed under normal use. I believe they are manufactured and poorly designed internally and the failures are of the spiral plates and/or the cells.

The Optimasare stronger than the standard lead acid batteries when they do work which is the reason why many were lead to believe that they are excellent batteries in the beginning. As time marches on, the failure of the Optima batteries mounts up as many of the DMLers have expressed.

I find that their pro rated program doesn't merit the usage time when calculated, for the amount calculated usually end up costing almost the same as a new battery discounted on an outright purchase. That is the reason why I brought the Yellow one and hoping that it will serve my DeLorean's needs better -- Wrong again!

I personally don't like the hassle in dealing with any of the
product's warranty program. I have approached the idea to purchased
the best battery with the attitude as "price is no object" as long as it is efficient and the Optimas batteries were indeed advertised to be just such. I want a product that works and not to be fail me in the time when needed and as well as putting me to the aggravation to return the failed product.

I also don’t understand the reasons why there is a need in charging them periodically when Optima boasts the greatness of the new modern “spiral gel cell” technology. Now the other issue is that the alternators fitted in our DeLoreans may not have the high output that is suggested in charging them, so could this possibly be adding to their early demise?

One of the factors in my decision in the purchasing of the Optima batteries for I was also told that they are used in the NYC EMS vehicles to supply the necessary power to run all the many medical equipments that is on board. I wonder how many failed batteries the NYC EMS vehicles have or what is their percentage of failure, for the Optima batteries don't seem to last in our DeLoreans' by all of the many DMLers who wrote in.

A Sears Gold Label in my DeLorean for thirty months and still going strong...... and if it dies, I can go to the nearest Sears for a pro rated adjustment or buy a new one at a little more then half the cost of the Optimas.....

Kayo Ong
#5508
Lic 9D NY



On Jun 25, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Ryan Wright wrote:

> Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and still
> have problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just
> don't like to sit? Do they discharge more quickly when not in use, or
> are they otherwise less tolerant of being discharged too low?
>
> Does anyone really know the actual reason so many have had problems
> with them?
>
> -Ryan
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (19)

1f. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Soma576_at_dml_aol.com" Soma576_at_dml_aol.com soma576
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 am (PDT)



I agree. There must be something more happening here. No company could survive by replacing defective product with such frequency across the board.

Andy


In a message dated 6/25/2006 9:53:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com writes:


Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and still have problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just don't like to sit? Do they discharge more quickly when not in use, or are they otherwise less tolerant of being discharged too low?

Does anyone really know the actual reason so many have had problems with them?

-Ryan




Fargo, ND
1982 DeLorean DMC12 VIN 11596



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (19)

1g. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Tell you if you ask." racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com cruznmd
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:07 am (PDT)

I have gained unique battery experience with my recent experimentation with owning and driving a pure electric vehicle for daily use. I've researched battery types, behavior, vendors and cost in my quest to "stick it to the man" by greatly reducing my need to buy gasoline.

1. Gasoline powered cars are not a proper application of the Optima Yellow top. It is true that they are deep cycle but they are not "marine" batteries. The Blue-tops are. Yellow tops are often used in pure electric vehicles that require high performance, but not necessarily long range.

2. Red tops do suffer from some manufacturing defects but we as DeLorean owners exacerbate the problem with dirty grounds, and low, but constant loads on the battery and long periods of non-use. Combine this with the low alternator output and heavy cooling fan load from OEM fans and these batteries often get more than their fair share of abuse. The stock alternator/fan combo isn't so much of an issue if your grounds are clean and tight and the alternator is working CORRECTLY and doesn't have a few dead diodes.

3. I have only had to install 1 red-top in my DeLorean. I have upgraded my lock module with lower capacitors and different transistors to reduce the standby current, upgraded the alternator and keep my grounds clean and tight. The battery has lasted over 3 years so far, through all seasons, daily driving as well as extended periods of non-use. I did not use a cut-off switch.

4. Optima batteries are an AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt), spiral-wound cell construction, that does not vent explosive hydrogen gas when charging (unless grossly overcharged), nor leak if you flip over in an accident which is a Good Idea for batteries stored in the "people space" like our cars and Corvettes. Wet-cell, flooded lead-acid batteries are cheaper, and adequate for vehicles where the battery is stored in the engine compartment. I wouldn't waste the money on an Optima for my pick-up truck.

The bottom line is, the DeLorean must be healthy in order to keep the battery healthy, what ever the type or vendor. If you prefer to use a flooded, lead-acid battery, brands to avoid are "generic" brands offered by Auto-zone and such, Exide, and certain Sears Die-hard models. The lead plates are thin and of an out-dated design. A couple of reliable brands are Interstate, and the Die-Hard "Gold" series. If it seems like a 1000 cca battery is the only fix that works in your car, it's only because the lead plates are thick enough to handle the abuse that your car is dishing out in the form of poor grounding, weak alternator output and constant drains from wiring problems and the old- style lock module. You're just masking the real problem.

Mike Cohee's Optima for example, was probably slowly killed by his faulty alternator. Now that his alternator is replaced, his grounds are clean and he has Lockzilla, let's see how long the new one lasts.

If you like the AGM type battery, but don't trust Optima, Orbital (made by Exide) and a few other marine battery manufacturers make a similar battery. You may note that in one statement I recommend a brand and in another statement I do not recommend the same brand. The fact is, not all vendors make all bad or all good batteries.

Rich A.
#5335
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright" <ryanpwright_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and
still have
> problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just don't
like to
> sit? Do they discharge more quickly when not in use, or are they
otherwise
> less tolerant of being discharged too low?
>
> Does anyone really know the actual reason so many have had problems
with
> them?
>
> -Ryan
>









Messages in this topic (19)

1h. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "gullwingmag" gullwing-magazine_at_dml_sbcglobal.net gullwingmag
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:13 am (PDT)

I have a Red Top Optima in the Yellow D that is going on 3 years. The car does get driven several times a week however. Recently, during a 5 month engine swap project the battery did get abused pretty much but made it through the down time and excessive cranking of a new engine.
Now that the car is back up and running the battery seems as good as ever. Thumbs up on the Red Top I got.

Ron


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright" <ryanpwright_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Curious, I wonder how many of you drive your cars regularly and still
have
> problems with the Optimas? Is it possible the batteries just don't
like to
> sit? Do they discharge more quickly when not in use, or are they
otherwise
> less tolerant of being discharged too low?
>
> Does anyone really know the actual reason so many have had problems
with
> them?
>
> -Ryan
>










Messages in this topic (19)

1i. Re: Optima Batteries?
Posted by: "Todd Nelson" tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu todddmc12
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:26 am (PDT)

I'm not sure what the hype is all about with these batteries. I bought a
basic "Autocraft" battery from Advance Auto over a year ago and it's still
going strong, 12.6 volts. I even had the car stored for 9 months and
brought the battery in the house during that time. I didn't even have to
trickle charge it and it didn't loose a single volt. The best part is it
only cost 75 dollars, and that included disposing of my old one.

Todd Nelson
1561, Vermont
http://www.rit.edu/~tan5732





Messages in this topic (19)

2a. Rack & Pinion problems
Posted by: "cupsdmc" cupsdmc_at_dml_yahoo.com cupsdmc
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:06 am (PDT)

I noticed a clunking noise after unloading my car off my trailer from
Pheasant Run. I finally got around to checking on it today and the
right front wheel had some slop in it. I took off the wheel and
noticed the slop is inside the boot(passanger side) on the rack and
pinion steering. I slid the boot off and a bunch of plastic crumbs
came falling out. It looks like it may have been a bushing in the end
of the steering unit. I haven't been able to find a part on any of the
vendors sites. Do I need to replace my whole rack and pinion unit or
can I simply replace the bushing. Any suggestions would help as I have
a show on the 4th of July and also the parade. If I ran it a few miles
without this bushing, would this be unsafe or cause any major damage?

Terry
11572









Messages in this topic (3)

2b. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
Posted by: "Dave Swingle" swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com daveswingle2
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 am (PDT)

I saw that happen on a car that had maybe 2500 miles on it. The
bushing on the passenger-side end had just disintegrated. This is a
non-available part, so anyone who rebuilds the racks is having the
part made locally (it's very hard Nylon or Delrin-type plastic). To
replace it you also have to remove the inner tie-rod end which if I
recall correctly is pinned in place.

The car that I saw this on was being driven but the complaint was
uneven steering and lots of clunking noises up front. No permanent
damage, but over time it would have beat up the end of the housing
and the rack itself. Unless you are a machinist, and can figure out
what the plastic parts were supposed to look like all in one piece,
you are probably in the market for a professionally rebuilt steering
rack. I think all the vendors are providing this as an exchange
service as this rack does not cross to any other car, and there are
no more new ones.

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cupsdmc" <cupsdmc_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> I noticed a clunking noise after unloading my car off my trailer
from
> Pheasant Run. I finally got around to checking on it today and the
> right front wheel had some slop in it. I took off the wheel and
> noticed the slop is inside the boot(passanger side) on the rack and
> pinion steering. I slid the boot off and a bunch of plastic crumbs
> came falling out. It looks like it may have been a bushing in the
end
> of the steering unit. I haven't been able to find a part on any of
the
> vendors sites. Do I need to replace my whole rack and pinion unit
or
> can I simply replace the bushing.









Messages in this topic (3)

2c. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
Posted by: "David Teitelbaum" jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net jtrealtywebspannet
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:07 am (PDT)

The vendors do not sell parts for the racks except for maybe the
boots. They want to have the whole thing so they can rebuild it
properly. I don't think anyone can say driving on that rack now would
be safe knowing parts are crumbling out of it. Check the tie rod ends
too and figure on sending the rack out for rebuild or exchange. When
the rack comes back you will probably need an alignment to set the toe
and center the steering wheel.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cupsdmc" <cupsdmc_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> I noticed a clunking noise after unloading my car off my trailer from
> Pheasant Run. I finally got around to checking on it today and the
> right front wheel had some slop in it. I took off the wheel and
> noticed the slop is inside the boot(passanger side) on the rack and
> pinion steering. I slid the boot off and a bunch of plastic crumbs
> came falling out. It looks like it may have been a bushing in the end
> of the steering unit. I haven't been able to find a part on any of the
> vendors sites. Do I need to replace my whole rack and pinion unit or
> can I simply replace the bushing. Any suggestions would help as I have
> a show on the 4th of July and also the parade. If I ran it a few miles
> without this bushing, would this be unsafe or cause any major damage?
>
> Terry
> 11572
>








Messages in this topic (3)

3. Re: DCS judging of cars
Posted by: "cupsdmc" cupsdmc_at_dml_yahoo.com cupsdmc
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:06 am (PDT)

Well- I don't feel bad, not entering that category then. I got mine
in August of 05' And yes, the judging sheets would be a nice thing
to have. (Hint for Gettysburg)

Terry
11572

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Popp" <trentjus_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> I won for the "newest owner" as I bought my car sept '05. I am
very
> certain though that there was a newer owner there, because I met
> him. I belive he has owned for only 3 weeks. Oh well, what can
you
> do. I would also be interested to know if the judging sheets are
> available. I was in the 20-30k class and I thought my car was
pretty
> dang clean!
>
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cupsdmc" <cupsdmc_at_dml_> wrote:
> >
> > I had entered my car in the standard judging class (0-10,000 mi)
at
> DCS
> > and was wondering if anyone knew how I could get the judging
sheets
> for
> > my car. This is the first show that I have ever been a
participant
> in
> > and I don't know what the judges look for. It would be a great
> help to
> > me, if I new what I was graded on.
> >
> > Also, does any one know how long the winner of the "Newest
Delorean
> > Owner" award has owned his Car?
> >
> > Terry
> > 11572
> > http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2257846
> >
>









Messages in this topic (10)

4. Malibu Concourse by the Sea
Posted by: "geoff_ombao" geoff_ombao_at_dml_yahoo.com geoff_ombao
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:16 am (PDT)

Greetings all,

Wondering if anyone from So. Cal. has ever participated in, or attended this event. If so, do
you have any feedback? Thinking about participating, but from the info on the site, I don't
know what to expect of this venue.

Info on thi show is at: http://www.malibuconcours.com/

- Geoff
10718









Messages in this topic (1)

5a. Re: DCS 08 Rooms going quick?
Posted by: "Kevin Abato" delorean_at_dml_abato.net iguanajade
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:20 am (PDT)

I reserved my room already as well. No way I am missing out on DCS 08!!!!

Kevin Abato
Vin# 16680

_____

From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Erik Geerdink
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:09 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] DCS 08 Rooms going quick?



We just reserved 3 rooms for the next show. Since its in Gettysburg, the
"Geerdinks" are thinking about making a family vacation out of it. Me, my
wife, kid (should be just one....), brother, sister (husband), neices,
grandma, grandpa. The good thing about that is it now doesn't matter if its
on Fathers Day, we'll all be there. Our family loves history, and with this
show being so closes to DC, Philly (i know, still a drive,,,but closer than
Michigan!), and so much more, this would be a great opportunity to take a
family vacation. Plus, if we decide we don't want to do this, we can cancel
the rooms anytime and pay nothing. 
So, Ken....check three more rooms off your list. When we called that hotel
said these rooms sure are going fast! I guess the Delorean community got the
hint....RESERVE EARLY!!!!

Erik
04512


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2˘/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: DCS 08 Rooms going quick?
    Posted by: "bbbigray" bbbigray_at_dml_comcast.net bbbigray
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:07 am (PDT)

Scratch one more room, I just got mine too.  Funny, the 
reservationist seemed to be, uh, somewhat familiar with our little 
shindig.

Area history--does this mean Three-Mile Island will be on the driving 
tour?  (Hey, free plutonium!) 

Oh, BTW Ken, after consulting with the stewards, I'm concerned that 
our cars may not all fit on the go-kart track at once; we may have to 
do heats and then a feature.  

jm2c.  :)

--Ray
10693 and Counting

More serious note:  If you're flying in, Harrisburg, PA. airport is 
just up the road a piece.  Just about all the major airlines go 
there. Cool little airfield, very pretty drive.



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> I reserved my room already as well.  No way I am missing out on DCS 
08!!!!
>  
> Kevin Abato
> Vin# 16680
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of
> Erik Geerdink
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:09 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] DCS 08 Rooms going quick?
> 
> 
> 
> We just reserved 3 rooms for the next show. Since its in 
Gettysburg, the
> "Geerdinks" are thinking about making a family vacation out of it. 
Me, my
> wife, kid (should be just one....), brother, sister (husband), 
neices,
> grandma, grandpa. The good thing about that is it now doesn't 
matter if its
> on Fathers Day, we'll all be there. Our family loves history, and 
with this
> show being so closes to DC, Philly (i know, still a drive,,,but 
closer than
> Michigan!), and so much more, this would be a great opportunity to 
take a
> family vacation. Plus, if we decide we don't want to do this, we 
can cancel
> the rooms anytime and pay nothing. 
> So, Ken....check three more rooms off your list. When we called 
that hotel
> said these rooms sure are going fast! I guess the Delorean 
community got the
> hint....RESERVE EARLY!!!!
> 
> Erik
> 04512
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 
30+
> countries) for 2˘/min or less.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Stainless Frame Features
    Posted by: "Bryan Pearce" bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com pdc_permaframe
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:27 am (PDT)

I would like to publicly thank all those that have sent me private e- 
mail messages about the Stainless Steel frames.  Your support and  
encouragement are appreciated.

Tom, your evaluation of the welds on a PDC frame are based strictly  
on appearance.  This is one method of evaluating the weld.  The other  
is penetration of the weld for longevity and stability.  As with any  
new endeavor, the appearance of the welds has improved significantly  
since the beginning of this project.  All of the welds have always  
been quality welds.  We have talked to our share of "expert" welders  
of Stainless Steel and received praises for taking on the task of  
building a car chassis out of Stainless and putting it together so  
well.  The prototype Stainless Frame remains in use under my daily  
driver with over 130,000 on the frame and no problems.  I also know  
of other owners with Stainless frames without any problems.  You  
don't have to feel "scared" in a DeLorean with one of our frames.

As for the frames you have examined, I believe one of the frames  
belonged to Walter Coe in Florida.  This was an early frame.  You  
know Walter and you did resided in Florida for a time.  Many long  
time DMLers are familiar with Walter's issue with one of our frames.   
This issue was addressed several years ago with him privately.   
However Tom, since you have decided to make this posting to the  
group, I will tell everyone that I spoke with Walter at great length  
about the frame and offered a full refund.  The refund offer was  
never accepted.

I am not going to turn this into a welding lesson, but compare the  
welds on the inside of the front lower control arms to the majority  
of welds on the frame.  You will see that they look almost the same.   
You say the welds on the front lower control arms are a "thing of  
beauty" but the exterior surface welds on the arms are a different  
type of weld than the interior.  Additionally, the front lower arms  
are electro polished.  The size of the frame makes electro polishing  
costly.

If you wish to continue this conversation, please do so privately via  
e-mail or phone.
-- 
===============================================
Bryan Pearce
Pearce Design Components
2N629 Jefferson St.
West Chicago, IL  60185
Phone:   (630) 293-0945
Fax:     (630) 293-0944

DeLorean Part Fabrication
===============================================

On Jun 24, 2006, at 10:30 AM, Tom Niemczewski wrote:

> Hello all
>
> Since the topic of design features was brought up I have to ask  
> about the
> quality. Brian, did the quality of the welds improve recently? I had a
> chance to see one of your frames in Memphis in 2002 and then  
> another one
> bought from you some time after that show and I have to say that  
> the quality
> of the welds on those two frames was terrible to say the least. I'm  
> not
> trying to offend anyone but by looking at those two frames I was  
> under the
> impression that whoever did it had absolutely no experience in welding
> stainless steel. I personally would not feel safe driving a car  
> with such
> poorly welded frame. A professional welder said, after looking at  
> one of
> your frames, that the only way to fix it would be to just grind all  
> the
> welds off and start over...
> For the price I would expect a lot more...
> Your front lower control arms on the other hand are a thing of  
> beauty and
> the welds are top notch. Why isn't the frame even close to that?
> I even took some pictures of the welds on the frame that was in  
> Memphis, it
> was scary
> I hope you have this issue resolved now. A frame falling apart from  
> bad
> welds would be really bad... Let's just hope it never happens.
>
> Tom Niemczewski
> vin 6149 (in Poland!)
> Google earth: 52°25'17.30"N 21° 1'58.00"E
> tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl
> www.deloreana.com
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Stainless Frame Features
    Posted by: "Bryan Pearce" bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com pdc_permaframe
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:02 am (PDT)

Videobob,

Thank you for the comments.

In brief, the front upper and lower control arms are separate because  
they can be used with a stock DeLorean frame.  This also allows  
someone the option to limit the amount of money spent up front for a  
Stainless frame.  I will calculate a package price for everything we  
produce to incorporate some savings those that would like everything  
Stainless and make it available on the web site.

The front crumple tube and frame for that matter, are designed with  
the properties of Stainless Steel in mind.  This did require a great  
deal of thought and correspondence with Mr. DeLorean.  The frame  
needed to be completely redesigned for Stainless Steel and not just  
copied from the steel frame.  We wanted the crumple tubes to be  
strong enough not to require the safety recall but not too strong to  
prevent them from performing their intended function.

-- 
===============================================
Bryan Pearce
Pearce Design Components
2N629 Jefferson St.
West Chicago, IL  60185
Phone:   (630) 293-0945
Fax:     (630) 293-0944

DeLorean Part Fabrication
===============================================


On Jun 24, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Videobob Moseley wrote:

> Bryan,
> I interviewed you (twice) about the frames and I think they are great!
> I think if not for the cost, everyone would get one if they could.
> I think some of the improvements you made were excellent.
>
> There was only two thoughts I wanted to add in.
> One, I think the optional front arms should be standard on the frame.
> It doesn't make much sense to have everything but the front suspension
> be stainless.....
>
> The other was about the front crumple tubes.
> I have to assume that you haven't crash tested any of these,
> and being that your tubes are made of thicker stronger metal I am
> betting that rather than "crumple" like the weaker welded on versions
> that they would shear the bolt heads off, or tear at the mountings or
> worse do nothing it at all and compress the frame to bend at another
> weaker spot.
> I suppose this isn't really an issue because the type of head on crash
> needed to do that would mostly likely kill you anyway....
> I was just wondering if you had put much thought into that at all?
> Should front tubes be made of a thinner material to allow easier  
> crushing?
>
> I have wrecked my car before, slamming into a car at about 30 MPH.
> The frame and steering was untouched, but the front fiberglass was
> broken up pretty bad. (I felt nothing by the way, no injury at all)
>
> Here are some photos from 01/24/04 - http://dfwdmc.com/wreck.html
> We repaired everything to like new in the end.
>
> Not trying to pile on you and make things worse, but I figure if you
> are in the mood to defend your frame this is a good time to ask the
> question.
> All in all, I hope I can afford to get one of your frames for my next
> DeLorean
> project car as I plan to put in a different engine and modernize  
> the car
> quite
> a bit. With a stainless frame, and the added features of the car,  
> you would
> truly
> have a car that could last forever.....
>
> - Videobob
>
>> From: Bryan Pearce <bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com>
>> Subject: [DML] Re: Stainless Frame Features
>>
>> I feel compelled to respond to, what seems to be, an attack on our
>> Stainless Steel frame solution for the DeLorean and the effort that
>> was required to make this product available to the DeLorean
>> community.  While I applaud the effort put forth by John Dore on his
>> restoration, I am offended by his comments.  John fails to realize
>> the amount of time and effort required to build a stainless steel
>> frame for our cars.





Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Stainless Frame Features
    Posted by: "Bryan Pearce" bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com pdc_permaframe
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:02 am (PDT)

John,

I would gladly discuss further issues with you, but feel it would be  
more appropriate to discuss them privately.

However, I would like to clarify for you and the list my $90,000  
price quote.  Keep in mind that making replacement pieces of an  
existing frame is different from building something completely new.   
To build a new frame, you need to consider finance, design, tooling,  
raw materials, assembly fixtures and process, facilities, and labor.   
This all assumes that you are planning on building hundreds of frames  
and not just one frame.

I don't feel any need to incorporate what you refer to as "design  
features" into the Stainless Steel frame.  However, if you want to  
see something really pretty, check out our frame tie downs and  
redesigned trailing arms.  Better yet, look at them in 130,000 miles  
and see that they have not changed.

-- 
===============================================
Bryan Pearce
Pearce Design Components
2N629 Jefferson St.
West Chicago, IL  60185
Phone:   (630) 293-0945
Fax:     (630) 293-0944

DeLorean Part Fabrication
===============================================


On Jun 24, 2006, at 3:59 PM, John Dore wrote:

> I would be very interested in seeing a reply from you regarding the
> projected cost of $90,000 for a frame incorporating the design
> features I commented on being missing from your stainless steel
> frames. I'm sure others would be interested in seeing a justification
> for this price also, now that my website shows how easy it is to
> incorporate these features.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. How does the thermotime switch work?
    Posted by: "Derek" derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net dgrozio
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:59 am (PDT)

I recently did a valley of death teardown and now the car seems to have problems starting 
when cold. The only thing I really touched thats involved in the hot/cold start circuit from 
what I can tell is the thermotime switch. I removed it from my old water pump and replaced it 
in the new one. My question is, does the switch threads use the water pump as a ground? I 
put teflon tape around the threads before reinstalling. This is my only idea so far, as I do not 
know how this circuit works (what is being sent and triggered by the switch) and haven't 
pulled out the multimeter yet to check it. Any comments are appreciated, thanks.

-Derek #10084









Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

8. Putsch Performance
    Posted by: "Tom Watkins" outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com outatime81
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:04 am (PDT)

Anybody know if these guys are still around?  I sent an e-mail asking about the shifter knobs but it came back undeliverable.

Find me on Google Earth
44°06'52.72"N 70°35'39.90"W
 		
---------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on  Yahoo! Small Business. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Re: Coil spring question
    Posted by: "Joshua Schwartz" Joshieloo_at_dml_aol.com joshieloo1292
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 am (PDT)

Rich and others,
I have a similar situation with my car with the Eibach kit. It makes the 
same sound you describe and seems to happen in the same situations you 
mention, though originally it began on the drivers side, but now sounds 
as though it comes from both sides. I seem to hear it more when I have a 
1/2 tank or more of fuel, or if the trunk is loaded, as it was to and 
from the DCS. I had the suspension inspected twice and everything is 
installed properly. I asked Stephen from DMC (Texas) to take a ride with 
me at the DCS so he could hear it first hand. He agreed, it was 
suspension related and is going to be working with my installer to try 
and correct the problem. From what has been explained, the shock towers 
were built with some variance. Some cars will make noise when the OEM is 
replaced with after market, especially if the after market spring is 
larger than the OEM. It seems to hit the shock tower when deflected and 
makes the sound you describe. The only solution is to return to stock, 
install smaller springs or if visible, pull the shock tower framing 
where the spring has rubbed against it.
- Joshua Schwartz
001292
020098

racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com wrote:

>Last weekend I rebuilt the front suspension on my DeLorean. The 
>following work was completed:
>
>1. Upper/lower ball joints with Grady reenforcement collars.
>2. Upper/lower control arm bushings.
>3. Control arms boxed in.
>4. New front shocks (the "Marty M." kit).
>
>Also not long ago, the tie rod ends and sway bar bushings were 
>replaced. The rear shocks haven't been replaced yet due to time 
>constraints but will be soon.
>
>Ever since I put the car back together, if I hit a speed bump or 
>pothole (at reasonable speeds), the passenger front coil spring 
>makes a loud "DONG!" sound, and a second later, a softer "dong!" as 
>if it's popping back into it's seat.





Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. Re: A/C cutting out
    Posted by: "John Hervey" john_at_dml_specialtauto.com johnatspecialt
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 am (PDT)

Ryan, The cycling switch screws onto the top of the accumulator and is also
called the low pressure switch.
The reason it cycles less in hot weather is because the hotter the air
blowing over the evaporator coil the less it will cycle. 
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ryan Wright
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:56 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] A/C cutting out

I haven't -- What is this, where can I find it, and how do I adjust it?

When I bought the car the A/C didn't work at all. A local shop
replaced the low (?) pressure switch and that fixed it.

I should add, this seems to be heat related. The hotter it is outside,
the less time my compressor will cycle before something shuts it down.

-Ryan

On 6/24/06, John Hervey <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com> wrote:
>
> Ryan, have you replaced the cycling switch or adjusted it.
>  John Hervey
>  www.specialtauto.com






Messages in this topic (6)
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11. UK source of specialty fuels
    Posted by: "Peter Lucas" lucas_at_dml_Maya.com lucasxyzzy
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:16 am (PDT)

There is a interesting new on-line provider of specialty petrol  
products and other fuels for the UK market:

http://www.petroldirect.com/

They have a product specifically targeting the DeLorean market. Go to  
their home page and follow the link under "Specialist Fuels" (on the  
left).

--Pete Lucas
   VIN #06703




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (1)
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12. Re: Replacing door weatherstripping
    Posted by: "David Teitelbaum" jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net jtrealtywebspannet
    Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:16 am (PDT)

Clean the spot on the doors that the seal rubs against with alcohol.
Spray some silicone lubricant on a rag and wipe it onto the door
seals. Thicker seals won't necessaraly help. They are for cars that
have a large gap when the doors are closed. Most cars are fine with
the standard size seal. Do not try to compensate for old, dead door
seals by adjusting the doors to close tighter. Replace the seals if
they are over 10 years old. When the rubber gets old it gets "sticky"
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "conundrum1984" <jeepno1_397_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> I need to replace my weather stripping too.  I just installed Toby's
> Basic Wings-A-Loft kit.  Very nice kit.  My doors open slowly so the
> torsion bars need a little adjustment.  That's with the weather
> stripping not there.  My doors seem to get stuck on the inner door
> weatherstripping though.  Someone mentioned that Grady's kit was
> thicker to make a good seal.  For some reason I think thicker would
> c








Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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