From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:34 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3308

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com

1b. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
From: Matthew Cooley

1c. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
From: Bob Brandys

1d. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
From: Bob Brandys


2. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
From: David Teitelbaum


3a. Re: A/C cutting out
From: David Teitelbaum

3b. Re: A/C cutting out
From: Harold McElraft

3c. Re: A/C cutting out
From: Ryan Wright


4a. Has anyone seen or heard of this?
From: coreysmoo

4b. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
From: Chuck McKnight

4c. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

4d. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
From: Chris Shepherd


5a. Re: Rooms at Gettysburg by Ken
From: conundrum1984

5b. Re: Rooms at Gettysburg by Ken
From: rdcejc_at_dml_earthlink.net


6a. Re: Replica
From: conundrum1984

6b. Re: Replica
From: Chris Murley


7a. Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
From: John Dore

7b. Re: Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
From: d_rex_2002

7c. Re: Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMC Ltd


8. Re: Optima Batteries?
From: jpalatinus


9. Johnny Carson Delorean secretly signed by the QAC workers
From: Jeff Angwin


10. New Reproduction Steering Racks (was: Rack & Pinion problems)
From: James Espey


11. Product sub forums?
From: Tom Tait


12. Anyone going to the F1 race at Indy this weekend?
From: James Espey


13. Anyone near Hercules, CA?
From: James Espey



Messages

1a. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
Posted by: "PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com" PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com p12c16
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:44 pm (PDT)

Bob,
Ever thought of selling your custom full size windows in a kit for other owners to install?

-Patrick C.
1880


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (6)

1b. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
Posted by: "Matthew Cooley" WHENRWE_at_dml_gmail.com dmc5524
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:46 pm (PDT)

Bob,

Have you had any trouble with the Lexan yellowing or discoloring in any way?

Thanks,

Matthew


On 6/26/06, Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I build and installed these full size power windows almost 10 years
> ago. JZD came to Cleveland to see them and try them. He was really
> impressed and had a lot to say to me about them.
>
> As for the weight and sagging issues, there are none. The Lexan
> windows weigh less than the glass windows. They are also easier to
> escape out of in case of a flip over. They also don't break like
> glass in a side collision.
>
> The lexan I use is the same as that used in Nascar and other race car
> windshields so it is very scratch resistant.
>
> People are asking about my design again. I plan on coverting Ryan's
> car to full size windows this winter. However, I want to product a
> drawing of the door showing exactly how they fit.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Bob





Messages in this topic (6)

1c. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
Posted by: "Bob Brandys" BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com bob6351
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:37 am (PDT)

Pat,

The idea of a kit is what this series of articles is going to be about.
I hope to show people how to do this. and have extra parts made.

Bob






Messages in this topic (6)

1d. Re: Full size glass - was: Cross Section of a DeLorean door
Posted by: "Bob Brandys" BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com bob6351
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:41 am (PDT)

Matt,

The lexan has not discolored, warped or anything over the last 10
years. Pretty amazing stuff. However, I keep the car in a garage, so
this has limited it UV exposure.

Bob





Messages in this topic (6)

2. Re: Rack & Pinion problems
Posted by: "David Teitelbaum" jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net jtrealtywebspannet
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:44 pm (PDT)

I have done alignments. I have not done 4 wheel alignments because of the complexity and the expense of the equipment. To do the job right you really need the proper equipment and I do not do it often enough to justify the expense. It is worth the $80 or so to have it done right. Driving a car that needs alignment can be very tiring to say nothing of the danger if you get into a situation that can make the car go out of control. You will also wear tires out prematurely. By the time you realize the alignment is off you have ruined a tire. You can also get "Thrust Steer". This is having the car try to turn when you accelerate. This can happen if you do not have the rear wheels adjusted properly. An alignment is one of the best investments you can make in your car. It can take a twitchy, hard to handle car and make it "tame". A Delorean properly set up is a very docile car to drive.
It has no excessive understeer or oversteer under most driving conditions. It should not have any play, vibration, or lead.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cupsdmc" <cupsdmc_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Have you ever tried setting the alingment yourself? I found
> directions to center the steering wheel. It didn't sound too hard, but
> getting the alignment just right could be difficult without an
> alingment rack.
>
>









Messages in this topic (8)

3a. Re: A/C cutting out
Posted by: "David Teitelbaum" jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net jtrealtywebspannet
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:44 pm (PDT)

If it runs then shuts off and then never comes back on you need to find what is holding it back. Try jumping out the low pressure switch and if your car has one, the high pressure switch. On a car I fixed recently the clutch on the compressor had too large an air gap. It would come on but once it went off it would never recyle. I had to disassemble the clutch and remove shims to reduce the gap. After that it cycled nicely. For this check if there is any voltage on the clutch trying to pull it in.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright" <ryanpwright_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Thanks John. Sounds like that switch is either faulty or needs to be
> adjusted. Would it be normal for the switch to just shut the
compressor down
> completely? Last week it was over 100 degrees. My A/C ran great for ab








Messages in this topic (11)

3b. Re: A/C cutting out
Posted by: "Harold McElraft" hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com hmcelraft
Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:46 pm (PDT)

Sounds like an electrical circuit or the clutch on the AC compressor.

If fan speeds 1 and 2 work then the fuse that runs the clutch is ok.
Sometimes the clutch windings lose the ability to engage the clutch.
You can check the current draw by jumpering the clutch at the connection at the clutch. 12 volt positive. You should get a nice snap engagement which tells you there is too much resistence in the circuit somewhere before the compressor. If the clutch engages slow or drags or gives up after a few minutes there is probably too little current draw indicating an open winding (3amps minimum) which means replace the clutch or compressor.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright" <ryanpwright_at_dml_...>
wrote:
>
> My A/C simply cuts out sometimes when driving. The air will blow
nice
> and cold, then at random will slowly get warm. It eventually kicks
> back in and cools down again, sometimes after 30 seconds, sometimes
> after 5 minutes. Driving doesn't affect it - I can be at idle or at
> speed the entire time.
>
> I suspect one of the pressure switches is kicking the compressor
off
> when it shouldn't; all fans (interior blower & cooling fans) are
> working fine. I'm running R12 and the system is full per DMC specs.
> A/C shop looked at it but the problem is intermittant and they're
> having trouble diagnosing it, as every time I bring it in the darn
> thing works fine.
>
> Any advice on how I might troubleshoot this?
>
> -Ryan
>









Messages in this topic (11)

3c. Re: A/C cutting out
Posted by: "Ryan Wright" ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com ryanpwright
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:33 pm (PDT)

Thanks Harold, David & John for the replies.

A rare event, I got home tonight and the A/C wasn't working when I was in my driveway. Usually, it's kicked back on by then (or never kicked off). I checked the red wire going to the compressor and it had +12V, but the compressor was still not cycling. Turning the A/C on and off didn't give me the normal click & drawdown on the engine that it usually does.

I'm going to replace the compressor. It's 25 years old, it's had about enough. :)

Thanks again,

-Ryan

On 6/26/06, Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like an electrical circuit or the clutch on the AC compressor.
>
> If fan speeds 1 and 2 work then the fuse that runs the clutch is ok.
> Sometimes the clutch windings lose the ability to engage the clutch.
> You can check the current draw by jumpering the clutch at the
> connection at the clutch. 12 volt positive. You should get a nice snap
> engagement which tells you there is too much resistence in the circuit
> somewhere before the compressor. If the clutch engages slow or drags
> or gives up after a few minutes there is probably too little current
> draw indicating an open winding (3amps minimum) which means replace
> the clutch or compressor.
>
> Harold McElraft - 3354
>
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com <dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ryan Wright"
> <ryanpwright_at_dml_...>
> wrote:
> >
> > My A/C simply cuts out sometimes when driving. The air will blow
> nice
> > and cold, then at random will slowly get warm. It eventually kicks
> > back in and cools down again, sometimes after 30 seconds, sometimes
> > after 5 minutes. Driving doesn't affect it - I can be at idle or at
> > speed the entire time.
> >
> > I suspect one of the pressure switches is kicking the compressor
> off
> > when it shouldn't; all fans (interior blower & cooling fans) are
> > working fine. I'm running R12 and the system is full per DMC specs.
> > A/C shop looked at it but the problem is intermittant and they're
> > having trouble diagnosing it, as every time I bring it in the darn
> > thing works fine.
> >
> > Any advice on how I might troubleshoot this?
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (11)

4a. Has anyone seen or heard of this?
Posted by: "coreysmoo" coreysmoo_at_dml_hotmail.com coreysmoo
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:53 am (PDT)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338260/

Manning Redwood as John DeLorean. What is this?

Corey Ooms
2423








Messages in this topic (4)

4b. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
Posted by: "Chuck McKnight" gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com gullwingdoors
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:42 am (PDT)

Interesting. Here it is on amazon. http://tinyurl.com/mjc8k

Chuck McKight

coreysmoo <coreysmoo_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338260/

Manning Redwood as John DeLorean. What is this?

Corey Ooms
2423







Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Messages in this topic (4)

4c. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
Posted by: "kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com" kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com kkoncelik
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:37 am (PDT)

He does a theatrical performace as John DeLorean We have talked about him coming to the show but timing did not work out He may be with us in 2008

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (4)

4d. Re: Has anyone seen or heard of this?
Posted by: "Chris Shepherd" chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com chrisau79
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:37 am (PDT)

I read that the other way. Manning Redwood played by John DeLorean. Never heard of the movie though.



coreysmoo <coreysmoo_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338260/

Manning Redwood as John DeLorean. What is this?

Corey Ooms
2423






Chris
06301
Find me on Google Earth
45°43'03.24"N 123°53'45.81"W



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (4)

5a. Re: Rooms at Gettysburg by Ken
Posted by: "conundrum1984" jeepno1_397_at_dml_hotmail.com conundrum1984
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:34 am (PDT)

I reserved mine last night. I don't need anything fancy like a king room anyway. Just a normal, non-smoking room for me.

Come on people! Don't wait this time!

Matt









Messages in this topic (3)

5b. Re: Rooms at Gettysburg by Ken
Posted by: "rdcejc_at_dml_earthlink.net" rdcejc_at_dml_earthlink.net rdcejc
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:32 pm (PDT)

Just got home from the Grand Canyon.... When is the show in Gettysburg? Do you know if any of the Florida people are going and are they planning to caravan up?
Ed
6944


----- Original Message -----
From: conundrum1984
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/27/2006 2:41:40 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Rooms at Gettysburg by Ken


I reserved mine last night. I don't need anything fancy like a king room anyway. Just a normal, non-smoking room for me.

Come on people! Don't wait this time!

Matt


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Replica
    Posted by: "conundrum1984" jeepno1_397_at_dml_hotmail.com conundrum1984
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:34 am (PDT)

Just buy the gold one that is ten minutes from my house.

Matt
VIN: 2953

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "gbsdelorean" <gbsdelorean_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> A real project car….
> I have been reading about the two (or is it 4?) DeLorean's that were 
> gold plated, the thought occurred to try and replicate the feat.  I
am 
> sure the price would be astronomical to try and duplicate, but
trying 
> to obtain an original one is almost impossible.  Has anyone
seriously 
> looked into the possibility?
> I know some will say it is heresy to even consider producing a 
> replica, but then, what about making a replica of the BTTF car?
> Let's see - with gold plating going for $1.20 per square inch…
>









Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Replica
    Posted by: "Chris Murley" qumefox_at_dml_gmail.com qumefox76
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:21 pm (PDT)

On 6/26/06, gbsdelorean <gbsdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> A real project car….
> I have been reading about the two (or is it 4?) DeLorean's that were 
> gold plated, the thought occurred to try and replicate the feat.  I am 
> sure the price would be astronomical to try and duplicate, but trying 
> to obtain an original one is almost impossible.  Has anyone seriously 
> looked into the possibility?
> I know some will say it is heresy to even consider producing a 
> replica, but then, what about making a replica of the BTTF car?
> Let's see - with gold plating going for $1.20 per square inch…


It's possible to do I guess. Probably cheaper than buying one of the existing gold cars as well. But the real question is why would anyone want to? Doing so would very nearly render the car uninsurable for anything other than a display item, at least for new value with the gold plating. I guess I just don't see the point of having a car you can't drive.  It might be neat if your filthy rich and allready have a garage full of D's just sitting there. But then again, if you were rich enough to do this, it probably wouldn't be much of a project, as you'd most likly be paying someone else to do all the work anyway.

Just my two cents.

Chris
VIN #3209
http://badger.brazi.net/index.pl/delorean


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
    Posted by: "John Dore" dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com dmcjohn
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:45 am (PDT)

Hi Brian,

I don't see anything inappropriate in discussing your stainless frame on the list, seeing as you opened this discussion by trying to discredit my opinion on galvanised frames versus the stainless steel frame!

However, seeing as your position appears to have changed from having us believe it would cost $90,000 to have a frame incorporating these features made, to you simply not being interested in spending a few hours adding this nice touch to your frames, I am happy to not discuss this further, on or off the list.

On a side note, did you (or anyone else on the list) ever consider redesigning the rear suspension completely, and eliminating the trailing arm setup altogether? I'm planning on making a 4 seater DeLorean next year (2 + 2 setup), with a small back seat suitable for children or adults who don't mind being a bit squashed. Similar size to the Porsche 911 back seat or Renault Alpine...

I'll be basing the car on the Renault Apline GTA rear suspension setup, and most probably using the back seats from an Alpine. I'll be removing the frame from the DeLorean, stripping it and repairing any rust, redesigning the rear of the frame to run the Alpine suspension (or some home made similar solution), galvanising this frame, and reinstalling it into the DeLorean body. Also, with the trailing arm not in the  way anymore, the fiberglass body can then be cut (in the parcel shelf area), and modified to fit a seat on each side of the center console. With the trailing arm out of the way, the center console will not need to "splay out" at such a sharp angle in the luggage shelf area. This will allow a smaller seat to be placed at each side of the console, behind the 2 front seats.

I'm just starting to research the Alpine at the moment, but it appears to have upper and lower A arms (and rear roll bar) instead of the upper and lower links and trailing arm setup of the DeLorean.

Obviously, the battery and electrics etc will need to be relocated.

I won't be doing it to my current DeLorean, so I will be starting to look for a suitable car to perform this on over the next 6 months. 
I'm basically looking for a car with rust on the frame, a really bad interior, even a few dents in the stainless, but a good underbody.

Sounds like a fun project eh!

Ideas, Suggestions, Comments all welcome (except people telling me it can't be done!). Bob Brandy's, I'd like to also put in your full size windows into this car, so please come up with a DIY kit!

Thanks,
John

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Bryan Pearce <bryanp_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> John,
> 
> I would gladly discuss further issues with you, but feel it would
be  
> more appropriate to discuss them privately.
> 
> However, I would like to clarify for you and the list my $90,000 price 
> quote.  Keep in mind that making replacement pieces of an existing 
> frame is different from building something completely
new.   
> To build a new frame, you need to consider finance, design,
tooling,  
> raw materials, assembly fixtures and process, facilities, and
labor.   
> This all assumes that you are planning on building hundreds of
frames  
> and not just one frame.
> 
> I don't feel any need to incorporate what you refer to as "design 
> features" into the Stainless Steel frame.  However, if you want to see 
> something really pretty, check out our frame tie downs and redesigned 
> trailing arms.  Better yet, look at them in 130,000
miles  
> and see that they have not changed.
> 
> --
> ===============================================
> Bryan Pearce
> Pearce Design Components
> 2N629 Jefferson St.
> West Chicago, IL  60185
> Phone:   (630) 293-0945
> Fax:     (630) 293-0944
> 
> DeLorean Part Fabrication
> ===============================================
> 
> 
> On Jun 24, 2006, at 3:59 PM, John Dore wrote:
> 
> > I would be very interested in seeing a reply from you regarding
the
> > projected cost of $90,000 for a frame incorporating the design 
> > features I commented on being missing from your stainless steel 
> > frames. I'm sure others would be interested in seeing a
justification
> > for this price also, now that my website shows how easy it is to 
> > incorporate these features.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
    Posted by: "d_rex_2002" rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net d_rex_2002
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:28 pm (PDT)

John and others,

There seems to be a few similar, but different discussions going on under the same topic, which are somwhow overlapping and causing some confusion.  There is a DIY frame restoration, opinions on the PDC SS frame and some incorrect facts thrown in.
I do not think their has been anyone MORE interested in the DeLorean frame than Reg and Bryan, so much so that they have spent countless hours developing the Perma Frame and its nearly 200 full-scale drawings required to manufacture this product.

I think there are several significant reasons that Bryan and PDC felt the need to respond to John's opinion post and one comment sticks in my memory more than most.  John had stated that his galvanized frame is now "just as rustproof" as the PDC SS frame, at a fraction of the cost.  If John truly did his homework on this subject, he knows this statement is FALSE.
A simple "scratch test" on a galvanized frame will result in rust eventually forming, which does not occur with stainless.
There is very little chance the galvanized frame would remain rustproof (in the real world) for a claimed 100 year warranty.

There is a huge difference between refurbishing an existing frame, including fabricating a few patches and replacement parts, and refinishing it vs. re-designing, engineering and building a replacement frame from original OEM measurements.
I have worked with refurbished frames (in various conditions) and with the PDC SS frame, in stock and custom applications.
From a functional and engineering standpoint, the PDC SS frame is a much better product than the a stock frame could ever be. 

We all know the PDC frame is not a perfect solution (not yet), since it is an evolutionary product.  Research is on-going and with each install with another DeLorean underbody, more details are added to the knowledge base.  As for the welds, most of the early frames were focusing more on the form and function (penetration welds) vs. making the welds look "pretty".  When you are driving an off-ramp at slightly higher than the posted speeds, strong welds are more important than pretty welds, and as Bryan mentioned, 130,000+ miles on the proto-type SS frame, with less-pretty welds and all of them still holding strong.

Engineering, research and development all costs money and PDC has a huge investment made in the Perma Frame and its associated parts.  A trip to Reg's shop would convince most skeptics that PDC is a first-class operation, with the tools and frame jigs to create better than OEM production quality frames, with better than OEM production level tolerances held for each frame built.
The frame jigs and attachments allow for precise positioning of parts on the frame structure and to hold them in place to weld.

As for the $90,000 frame comment, I'm sure this is in the same context of the often heard $50,000 left front fender.  If the LF fender was to be re-created, to be stamped out similar to the original fenders, there is a good chance the first good fender stamped would have the full price tag attached.  Obviously, as large quantities can be produced (and sold) the price goes down. 
Working with mild steel vs. stainless steel is a big difference and any metal fabricator would charge differently, accordingly.

However, if there were a significant number of requests to make the SS frame more exact in appearance to the OEM frame AND if the requests were backed up with actual frame orders, I'm sure Reg and Bryan would consider the request as not just wish list items that would require more tooling and time to re-create, therefore increasing the cost of the SS frame.  As of now, I do not think enough DeLorean owners spend lots of time under their DeLoreans, just looking at the frame, to justify the extra cost.

As for the cost discussion, again, it is difficult to compare a repair project with a completely re-engineered new product.
Since John's estimate lacks most personal labor costs added to the total cost, it makes an attempted comparison more difficult.
Since no two frame repair and refurbishing projects will ever be identical (same rust repairs in the exact same locations) any comparison could only be a rough estimate, at best.  So, with that in mind, here is another galvanized frame example.

An owner in the Midwest US had his frame stripped, repaired in several places (patches added) and had his frame galvanized.
The process was done primarily by third-party services and therefore, the labor costs were much higher than John's frame.
The stripping took much longer than expected, the patches added weight to the frame and the galvanizing process did "tweak" the frame slightly, most likely from the heat. In the end, the results were very good, but the cost had inflated to between half and two thirds the cost of a new PDC SS frame.
Was it worth all the extra time and DeLorean downtime?  Maybe.

I'm not sure if this helps clarify either side of the discussion but I think it at least helps define some of the differences between details about a refurbishing project and the details regarding the development of a full SS replacement product.

In summary, if you are unable or unwilling to pay for a new SS frame, you can either try to fix it yourself or with the help of others, or you can have someone fix it for you.  In the end, you will still have a 24+ year old mild steel frame which will eventually rust again, if the car is driven often.
If you want the best replacement DeLorean frame solution available (period), then order the PDC SS frame from Bryan and order all the suspension options too (well worth it).

Later,
Rich W.

BTW: It's Bryan, not Brian.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Dore" <dmcjohn_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
> 
> I don't see anything inappropriate in discussing your stainless
frame 
> on the list, seeing as you opened this discussion by trying to 
> discredit my opinion on galvanised frames versus the stainless
steel 
> frame!
> 
> However, seeing as your position appears to have changed from
having 
> us believe it would cost $90,000 to have a frame incorporating
these 
> features made, to you simply not being interested in spending a
few 
> hours adding this nice touch to your frames, I am happy to not discuss 
> this further, on or off the list.
> 
> snip <









Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Getting rid of trailing arm setup (was Stainless Frame Features)
    Posted by: "Martin Gutkowski - DMC Ltd" martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk heavenrest
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:31 pm (PDT)


> On a side note, did you (or anyone else on the list) ever consider 
> redesigning the rear suspension completely, and eliminating the 
> trailing arm setup altogether? I'm planning on making a 4 seater 
> DeLorean next year (2 + 2 setup), with a small back seat suitable for 
> children or adults who don't mind being a bit squashed. Similar size 
> to the Porsche 911 back seat or Renault Alpine...
>






Woah - hold on there for a moment.... The back end of an Alpine GTA is very (very) different from the DeLorean. Let's start with the fact that it doesn't have a backbone chassis, it's a steel/fibreglass monocoque (yes, that's correct, they can't split their frames from their underbodies without cutting fibreglass), and move onto the fact that the car is longer to accomodate the rear seats (more of your legs go under the dash if you get my meaning). I don't think there's enough room in the rear of a D for a seat of any sort, even without the trailing arms. 
Just look how close the rear wheels are to the back of the seats. A GTA might have the same engine and transmission but it's a totally different animal at the rear. You should see the gearshift linkage - it's comically simple compared to the DeLorean. The hybrid wishbone.trailing arm setup of the DeLorean is a Lotus design from the Elan/Esprit and does some clever rear wheel steering when under body-roll (a function that I still think is the reason for the single shear traling arm bolt setup). It also provides a lightweight but extremely strong tranfter of thrust and drag (okay, TABs notwithstanding!). It's not there to get in the way of back seats, it serves a very definite purpose. Without redesigning the whole chassis, I think you'd be well advised to leave them alone.

>
> I'm just starting to research the Alpine at the moment, but it appears 
> to have upper and lower A arms (and rear roll bar) instead of the 
> upper and lower links and trailing arm setup of the DeLorean.
>




We had a scrap Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo for a while, and sent it on its way after pulling the engine and gearbox. It's still being parted out and the rear end was in good shape apart from being shockingly rusty (when you're used to DeLoreans that are 10 years older!). The suspension is referred to as double wishbone

Best Wishes

Martin




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Messages in this topic (15)
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8. Re: Optima Batteries?
    Posted by: "jpalatinus" jpalatinus_at_dml_gmail.com jpalatinus
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:10 pm (PDT)

I bought an Optima battery in 2002 at Pep boys, I kept the invoice for the 3 year free replacement and I went through 4 optima batteries from 2002-2005!  I am serious, and I have the invoices to prove it. Each time I took the battery to Pep boys with the invoice and they would give me a new one free of charge, after they put it on a tester and verified that it was bad.  I was actually thinking of continuing to do that and never buying another battery again, but it takes them 1 hour to decide that the battery is dead.  I finally got smart and asked for them to exchange it for whatever their 2nd best battery was, I don't remember what kind but it is a normal liquid cell battery and it has worked for over a year (Longer than any red top optima battery ever worked for me)  I drive my Delorean nearly every day, it had never been stored or not started for more than 2 weeks max. I know so many people that swear they are the best, but I won't touch them again.
Joe P.
VIN 17167
6808









Messages in this topic (22)
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9. Johnny Carson Delorean secretly signed by the QAC workers
    Posted by: "Jeff Angwin" jeff_at_dml_delorean.com jangwin
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:17 pm (PDT)

Hi all:

I meet with one of the workers from the Long Beach QAC while showing my Delorean at the Palo Alto Concours on Sunday. He had some fascinating stories to tell (and will probably be at the Houston open house next
July...)

Anyway, he related to me that he and all of the QAC workers, when preparing the car that would be delivered to Johnny Carson, signed and dated the underside of the T-panel.

I'm wondering if anyone has seen this? Has the panel ever been removed?

If the owner of the Johnny Carson car would like to get in touch with this gentleman, contact me off-list for the contact info. He has fond memories of the prep and delivery of the car (and of his time at the QAC in general), and I'm sure you'd like to hear his stories too.

---Jeff---
VIN 3034




Messages in this topic (5)
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10. New Reproduction Steering Racks (was: Rack & Pinion problems)
    Posted by: "James Espey" james_at_dml_delorean.com dmchelp
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:19 pm (PDT)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_...> wrote:
>
(snip) 
> rack. I think all the vendors are providing this as an exchange 
> service as this rack does not cross to any other car, and there are no 
> more new ones.
> 

Actually, the rebuilding of racks is going away, and the new
reproduction racks are in production right now. We'd noticed some time
ago the quality of the cores was getting worse and worse, and the cost
of the components for rebuilding them was quite expensive. We've had a
sample rack in a test car here for nearly a year now, and believe that
we'll be able to sell these new racks at less than the cost of a rebuild.

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com







Messages in this topic (8)
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11. Product sub forums?
    Posted by: "Tom Tait" TTait_at_dml_BRCWEB.com thomasttait
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:32 pm (PDT)

An idea like this was floated a month or two ago, but this is a little
different and maybe of interest.

How about adding a section to the Main DMCnews area where we can post
information specifically on products.  

I'm sure I remember posts from months ago that the Optima batteries were
great - now I have one in my car and another thread has come up letting
me know they are awful.

I thought I had researched pretty well on alternators and bought a
popular upgrade item, only to learn afterwards that a higher amperage
model requires a higher rpm just to kick in - I would have purchase
differently if I had known that.

I almost purchased a much more expensive automatic antenna, but in that
case I found a good option at a much lower cost.

With the choices for aftermarket items on the market it seems like sub
forums with specific product reviews for batteries, tires, which oil,
alternators, AC accumulators, aftermarket frames, etc. would be very
helpful.  If the members and moderators work to ensure it's not about
ongoing online arguments between vendors and owners it could remain
concise and helpful.  In fact I would suggest that vendors/manufacturers
be encouraged to only include links to a product page and application
notes for the item.  That is the page they could showcase their own
information on the item and answer criticisms of it in one place/message
(application notes?) rather than a series of posts.

Picture finding a structure like this:

>Alternators
>>Ducillier
>>Motorola
>>DMCH 105 Amp Reviews
>>>DMCH Product Page
>>PJ Grady 110 Amp Reviews
>>SpecialTAuto Alternator Reviews
>>>SpecialTauto Web Site
>>>SpecialTaut application Notes

>Battery
>>AC Delco Reviews
>>Optima Yellow Top Reviews
>>>Manufacturers Web Site
>>>Manufacturers Application Notes
>>Optima Red Top Reviews
>>>Manufacturers Web Site
>>>Manufacturers Application Notes
>>Sears Diehard

>Door Lock Controllers
>>OEM Grady/DMCH/DMC
>>DNPW Wings-Be-Open
>>>DNPW Website
>>Joe Cool
>>>Joe Cool Website and application notes
>>Other

>Tires
>>General Info
>>Michelin Pilot Reviews
>>Goodrich T/A Reviews
>>Yokahama Reviews
>>Other Tire Reviews

Everyone will agree that their preferred vendors are a great source for
recommendations on products, but it's hard to compare. If original
posters could be allowed to update a posting over time it becomes a
living guide and far more concise than searching for old posts.

Rather than the previous suggestion of a review committee, this might
prove more feasible and more helpful.

Moderator, vendors, owners, anyone think this might work?

Tom








Messages in this topic (1)
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12. Anyone going to the F1 race at Indy this weekend?
    Posted by: "James Espey" james_at_dml_delorean.com dmchelp
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:59 pm (PDT)

Call or email me, please!

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
800/872-3621





Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Anyone near Hercules, CA?
    Posted by: "James Espey" james_at_dml_delorean.com dmchelp
    Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:29 pm (PDT)

I need to store a non-running, but cosmetically nice, DeLorean for a few 
days to a week until my shipping company can come get it and bring it to 
  Texas. I can have it towed to your home or business, and can work out 
a deal for some storage charges while it sits there for a week or so. 
Please call and let me know!

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
800/872-3621





Messages in this topic (1)
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